Hello folks, I'm an Architectural designer, trying to design my own home. My old AutoCAD program is no longer functioning, so I needed something new but not too expensive. I found CMS IntelliCAD, after the website and YouTube videos both showed 3D models of multi-level buildings. I thought I was in the right place! Or was I?

I've spent hours, days, now weeks trying to figure out a way to model my simple 2-story home, design it, lay out the floor & site plans, and set up my AEC (3D) walls so that it doubles as a layout I can dimension and annotate for floor plans but also snap elevations from (side views) and a 3D model to understand the mass and details of the roof and more.

Well, despite seeing videos showing how fabulous the section and fly-through capabilities are, there's nothing telling me how to successfully model a building so that I can also document it so that I can print plans for a contractor. AutoCAD has a "Project Manager" that allows you to set up Levels, give them floor-to-floor heights, and associate layers to them for layer states. I simply cannot find a way to do this in IntelliCAD.

In desperation, I created blocks (also tried groups) of walls/doors/windows for each level (basement, floor 1, floor 2) but the entities in the blocks cannot be snapped to, dimensioned or aligned with elements from the block of walls from another level. I have no way to edit the blocks using the lower level as a reference for wall alignment. I searched the New User forum and searched the terms ‘AEC’ & ‘Architecture’; – “No suitable matches were found”. This a rough start.

Here is a list of these and other problems I've encountered that I've been keeping in a Word document:
1. No Project Manager for managing Architectural building levels/floors.
2. Can’t snap to elements inside a block
3. Can’t snap perpendicular to walls opposite side of building
4. Making walls/doors/windows into a block to manage as a level, no visibility settings for floor below to allow design alignments.
5. Ability to use the fillet command to cleanup wall intersections. Why not? ANY tool would be great!

Can somebody please help me? Is this program not really ready for Architects? I'm driving myself crazy.

I am no Architect, so I can't comment on specific issues, but I do work on complex 3D models of Chemical plants, oil/gas platforms....

I am the project manager so I manage what goes on what layer, and use Xrefs extensively to help manage my projects. Though the Xref display manager in Icad could be improved!
Could you not have an Xref for each floor? you could then control the displayed floors via the layer dialog (if you go this route ensure you attached floor 1 xref onto the layer floor 1).

I can & do use snaps on blocks & Xrefs without issues, that I have noriced.

Maybe Patrick will be able to comment on the Architectual issues more.

Also, many potential users loose sight of the cost of Icad/Acad. Icad is approx 1/20 the cost of Acad, yet they will compare them as equal products.

SteveN

sln8458 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 26, 2023 1:19 am

I am no Architect, so I can't comment on specific issues, but I do work on complex 3D models of Chemical plants, oil/gas platforms....
Sounds like you might know what you're talking about Steve...
I am the project manager so I manage what goes on what layer, and use Xrefs extensively to help manage my projects. Though the Xref display manager in Icad could be improved!
Could you not have an Xref for each floor? you could then control the displayed floors via the layer dialog (if you go this route ensure you attached floor 1 xref onto the layer floor 1).
Steve it sounds like you're doing things similarly to the way I've always done it in AutoCAD - my building design (just plans usually) is in a BASE drawing file. That file gets Xref'd into a Project file which is set up with all my drawing layouts/Mviews. I have almost 18 sheets for plans, elevations, sections, details, window/door schedules etc. in a typ. project. Some of those layouts have 4 to 6 viewports of different drawings in Model space, and some of those are the plans from the Xref. The detail items like elevations, sections and large-scale details are drawn in 2D in Model space of the Project file.

Your suggestion to use an Xref for each floor is an idea that could work technically, but it appears that no matter how I approach this I can't have my cake (build a 3D model of my home) and eat it too (document individual floor plans) without a lot of mental and software gymnastics. The issue is this: As I design Level 1, the stair location and exterior perimeter walls will be constantly moving as I then layout Level 2 and then the basement. All these items are in flux as I design, and it would be ideal (there's that word) to be able to ghost the other levels in my view (with all levels stacked in 3D to be able to ortho view the model) to be able to adjust entity locations to align on the different levels. This is easy in Revit as it's specifically designed for that. But trying to accomplish the same or similar results in ICad would require a Level manager, to be able to set the elevations (above sea level) or each level, visibility of each level, etc.

You mentioned using layers to control this, and I've racked my brain trying to figure out a way to dimension and annotate each floor Level in Model space when my Xref is of a 3D model with each floor level one above the other. Unless something awesome has been added to ICad that I haven't learned yet, Layer States in Model space have always applied to ALL of Model space, not just areas of Model Space. So, if I take your suggestion to have Floor 1 in one Xref, and Floor 2 in another, (That's a great concept!) I wouldn't know how to control the layers in a way that it shows each successive floor level and annotation in Model Space as WELL as Paper Space. That would be the only way to pull that off. I hope I haven't led you astray by now!

I can & do use snaps on blocks & Xrefs without issues, that I have noriced.
I was told by Joe in an e-mail response on the forum (where I mistakenly asked a tech question in the chat window - oops) that AEC items should NOT be locked into a block or group as they lose their dynamic properties, meaning I can't snap to them. I don't remember having this problem with AEC walls and such in AutoCAD, but I also was not trying to use them to build a 3D model, so each floor was next to the other floors in Model Space, 100 feet apart for simplicity.

Maybe Patrick will be able to comment on the Architectual issues more.

Also, many potential users loose sight of the cost of Icad/Acad. Icad is approx 1/20 the cost of Acad, yet they will compare them as equal products.
Believe me , I was incredulous at the price when I first saw it. I did NOT, however, buy this program because it was so "cheap" in comparison to AutoCAD at 10 times the price. I bought it because the YouTube videos I watched showed tutorials by "Natalie from the IntelliCAD Technology Consortium" flipping tall 3D buildings around, cutting sections and doing fly-throughs. The program is marketed as useful for Architects, Engineers etc... and the pretty graphics on their website shows glamorous buildings, and even the start page upon opening the software shows a glitzy 2 story lobby space. It never occurred to me that the program was good for modelling but not for organizing the 3D model into a set of documents to build it from. I would happily double - even triple - what I paid if this program had a Project Manager utility so I could set up my levels and properly document them. I guess what I'm getting at is I feel that they falsely advertise this to Architects.

SteveN

And if someone could help me figure out how to insert an image into a post... What does this do?

Images I think I can help with

Below the window, here as I type my reply, is a row of icons:
B I U(underline) ..... * image icon (insert image) chain icon (insert url)

I use Photobox to host my images and use the image icon to insert the image link
Here is one from another thread (I've added a few spaces to force the link text to display:
[img] https: //serving.photos.photobox.com/16923352ddfabb2cce88b600382555471734af59ecb9004f04becb00311bff23106eaa45.jpg [/img].

and here with no extra spaces: .

SteveN

sln8458 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:50 am

Images I think I can help with

Below the window, here as I type my reply, is a row of icons:
B I U(underline) ..... * image icon (insert image) chain icon (insert url)

I use Photobox to host my images and use the image icon to insert the image link
Here is one from another thread (I've added a few spaces to force the link text to display:
[img] https: //serving.photos.photobox.com/16923352ddfabb2cce88b600382555471734af59ecb9004f04becb00311bff23106eaa45.jpg [/img].

and here with no extra spaces:

.

SteveN

Thanks Steve. I had seen that icon but when I clicked it I only got the [img] [img] symbols and didn't know what to do next. I was hoping to be able to browse to a photo in my PC, but that option seems not to be on the table.

Bill,

In this jump to Intellicad you have to think more about how does Intellicad want me to do this versus how I used to do it.

If I'm tracking your problem, you are drawings walls on the first floor and then walls on the second and want it to work so that if you stretch the wall on the first floor the second will do the same?

I think you'll notice that as you draw the AEC walls, the are each one independent to the next. Change the length of one and the next wall does not automatically move. But if you use the stretch command and select a cross section of all the wall corners (floor 1 and 2 etc), and give it a displacement, they will all move together and stay intact. This is what I mean by figuring out a different way to achieve the same thing. Intellicad does not use parametric and constraint drawing at this time.

Modelling from 3D back to 2D for drawings requires a bit of thinking ahead and takes some patience but once you've really gotten into it, you'll never go back to drawing in 2D.

Hang in there and good luck.

-kam

Inexplicable_Bill wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:08 pm

sln8458 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:50 am

Images I think I can help with

Below the window, here as I type my reply, is a row of icons:
B I U(underline) ..... * image icon (insert image) chain icon (insert url)

I use Photobox to host my images and use the image icon to insert the image link
Here is one from another thread (I've added a few spaces to force the link text to display:
[img] https: //serving.photos.photobox.com/16923352ddfabb2cce88b600382555471734af59ecb9004f04becb00311bff23106eaa45.jpg [/img].

and here with no extra spaces:

.

SteveN

Thanks Steve. I had seen that icon but when I clicked it I only got the [img] [img] symbols and didn't know what to do next. I was hoping to be able to browse to a photo in my PC, but that option seems not to be on the table.

Hi Bill, I am Patrick (architect like you, i'm french)
Yes Bill this feature exist too but with an other method.
Below your message you have 2 menus : Options and Attachments Select Attachments and Add files > navigate to your image file on your computer.
Then you will see a new Filename below. Choose Place Inline button to put the image in your text. the location of your image in your text depends on where the cursor is when you click the button. Pay attention to that!

Look this House sample:
C:\Users\.......\Documents\CMS IntelliCAD11.1x64\Samples\ADT sample.dwg

1. No Project Manager for managing Architectural building levels/floors.
2. Can’t snap to elements inside a block
3. Can’t snap perpendicular to walls opposite side of building
4. Making walls/doors/windows into a block to manage as a level, no visibility settings for floor below to allow design alignments.
5. Ability to use the fillet command to cleanup wall intersections. Why not? ANY tool would be great!

1 But there are a Layer manager and you can fix the layer hight too!
Here: Format > Thickness

Back to Layers:
This is basically how I work, you will need to resolve your own way of working that suits you and your needs.
(sorry if you already know this)

Here is a simple layer setup: .

There are 3 Xrefs, Basement / ground floor / first floor. (note: these are colour white) each attached on a layer of it's own name
Each floor has it's own model & within each model there ar 3 layers. 0 / walls / electrics. (just for simplicity)

Now if you freeze the parent layer, say first floor (colour white) ALL of the layers associated with the Xref attched on that layer will be frozen.
However you can also freeze (off whatever) individual layers within this Xref.

So you can, if you choose, turn off/freeze ALL layer except for all of the walls.

SteveN

kam33mitch wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:00 pm

Bill,

In this jump to Intellicad you have to think more about how does Intellicad want me to do this versus how I used to do it.

If I'm tracking your problem, you are drawings walls on the first floor and then walls on the second and want it to work so that if you stretch the wall on the first floor the second will do the same?

I think you'll notice that as you draw the AEC walls, the are each one independent to the next. Change the length of one and the next wall does not automatically move. But if you use the stretch command and select a cross section of all the wall corners (floor 1 and 2 etc), and give it a displacement, they will all move together and stay intact. This is what I mean by figuring out a different way to achieve the same thing. Intellicad does not use parametric and constraint drawing at this time.

Modelling from 3D back to 2D for drawings requires a bit of thinking ahead and takes some patience but once you've really gotten into it, you'll never go back to drawing in 2D.

Hang in there and good luck.

-kam

It's been difficult to have to "think more about how does Intellicad want me to do this...." and that's because IntelliCAD DOES NOT do so many things yet I have to discover this by trial and error. For instance, I drew a slab. I followed the perimeter of the walls, gave it a type and thickness based on the floor construction I plan to use. Then, as my design progressed, I decided I need to modify the shape of the slab/floor perimeter to bump in and out differently from the original design. Well, it appears IntelliCAD does not offer a means to edit the shape of a slab/floor. That's NUTS! Yes I know you can grab the grips and make changes that way, but I need to be able to add new facets to the slab perimeter, and there appears to be no way to do that.

Regarding the walls, my initial intention was to build the model for my two-level home with 9' tall walls on the first floor and 8' walls on the second floor. I then wanted to be able to stack those walls on top of each other at their appropriate elevations to generate a 3D model of the house. However, there is no means within the software to manage the separate levels, annotate them, dimension them etc and place them on floor plan views on separate sheets. The reason for that is that there is no means to create Model space views of the different levels - that I have been able to find - to allow dimensions and notes etc. I refuse to dimension or annotate in Paper Space. That's not efficient because this program - like AutoCAD - messes up your view settings once you mistakenly Zoom within the view.
AutoCAD or any other 2D program was stupid simple. Plans, elevations, details etc. all lived in one big place in Model Space. As you can see from the attached image, I had a lot of stuff there. Multiple design options, site plans, multiple levels floor plans set 150' apart vertically and 200' apart horizontally. Elevations lived in one area, kitchen plans in another etc etc.It's what we all knew how to draw. I know Revit well, so I'm stuck in the middle with IntelliCAD - how to draw a 3D model but also be able to document the floor plans without lots of re-drawing the same levels in multiple locations for different plans and views.

SPirou4D wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:14 am

Inexplicable_Bill wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:08 pm

sln8458 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:50 am

Images I think I can help with

Below the window, here as I type my reply, is a row of icons:
B I U(underline) ..... * image icon (insert image) chain icon (insert url)

I use Photobox to host my images and use the image icon to insert the image link
Here is one from another thread (I've added a few spaces to force the link text to display:
[img] https: //serving.photos.photobox.com/16923352ddfabb2cce88b600382555471734af59ecb9004f04becb00311bff23106eaa45.jpg [/img].

and here with no extra spaces:

.

SteveN

Thanks Steve. I had seen that icon but when I clicked it I only got the [img] [img] symbols and didn't know what to do next. I was hoping to be able to browse to a photo in my PC, but that option seems not to be on the table.

Hi Bill, I am Patrick (architect like you, i'm french)
Yes Bill this feature exist too but with an other method.
Below your message you have 2 menus : Options and Attachments
ScreenShot_20230829110847.jpeg

Select Attachments and Add files > navigate to your image file on your computer.
Then you will see a new Filename below. Choose Place Inline button to put the image in your text.
ScreenShot_20230829111127.jpeg

the location of your image in your text depends on where the cursor is when you click the button. Pay attention to that!

Thank you Patrick for directing my eyes to find the Attachment button. Not only is IntelliCAD very different from AutoCAD, this forum is very different from the Auto forums I belong to.

sln8458 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 29, 2023 4:13 am

Back to Layers:
This is basically how I work, you will need to resolve your own way of working that suits you and your needs.
(sorry if you already know this)

Here is a simple layer setup:

.

There are 3 Xrefs, Basement / ground floor / first floor. (note: these are colour white) each attached on a layer of it's own name
Each floor has it's own model & within each model there ar 3 layers. 0 / walls / electrics. (just for simplicity)

Now if you freeze the parent layer, say first floor (colour white) ALL of the layers associated with the Xref attched on that layer will be frozen.
However you can also freeze (off whatever) individual layers within this Xref.

So you can, if you choose, turn off/freeze ALL layer except for all of the walls.

SteveN

I'm all set about layers... this is half of them.
I can't even begin to imagine designing a multi-level building where each level is an individual file brought in as an XREF. Or is it a magic trick I'm missing out on? It seems like it would be a nightmare just to tweak a wall location on 2 or 3 levels... and have it be coordinated and accurate.

I've been playing with layer states, but the idea of dimensioning and annotating plans is giving me a headache.

SPirou4D wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:26 am

Look this House sample:
C:\Users\.......\Documents\CMS IntelliCAD11.1x64\Samples\ADT sample.dwg

1. No Project Manager for managing Architectural building levels/floors.
2. Can’t snap to elements inside a block
3. Can’t snap perpendicular to walls opposite side of building
4. Making walls/doors/windows into a block to manage as a level, no visibility settings for floor below to allow design alignments.
5. Ability to use the fillet command to cleanup wall intersections. Why not? ANY tool would be great!

1 But there are a Layer manager and you can fix the layer hight too!
Here: Format > Thickness

I found the Format heading with Thickness command. You can set a thickness. But it does not say what that thickness is for?! This program is going to put me in an early grave.

Inexplicable_Bill wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:25 pm

I found the Format heading with Thickness command.
You can set a thickness.
But it does not say what that thickness is for?!

Yes but now you can go to the Intellicad help menu in HELP.
AND make a search here :

(The tile here is in french because I translate the help menu in french and I havn't ended..... I am the french translator for IntelliCAD.)

About how to work with layers, I use layers only for levels and/or facades.

Level1 - walls
level1 - windows
Level1 - doors
level2 - walls
level2 - windows
level2 - doors.
facade south
facade north
Section 1
section 2
etc

AND if you want to work with 3D you can add a height for earch layer and choose a thickness in plus.
so when you work on level2 layer all your item will be to this height directly.