This topic is completely off track and rather delicate as well. Still, I would like to have someones opinion on it. Like many of you, I also monitor other Intellicad forums. If for nothing else, to pick up the occasional tip or trick. I have noticed that one of the other Intellicad BB's has what I consider very strict forum rules. Here is what is not allowed and the consequence if you violate it:
- Talking favorably about other distributions/distributors of Intellicad: Access restrictions (you will no longer be allowed to post messages to the forum)
- Posting your email address at the forum (or requesting someone elses): Access restrictions.
(The latter means, in essence, that users are not allowed to contact each other "off" the forum)
The forum in question also has a filtering mechanism for names of competitive products, e.g. Turbocad 6 = ******** 6.
I have no problem understanding that an Intellicad distributor takes measures to protect his interests. After all, he is paying what it costs to keep a forum going, and nobody wants to pay for bad publicity. On the other hand, this also means a limitation of the user's freedom of opinion, and a limitation on the flow of potentially useful information. How do we relate to that?
Anyones opinion is greatly appreciated...
#4
I am pleased to report that the Email Address posting restrictions on the above site do not apply to "off Forum" Icad discussions. It seems an unfortunate form of words was used that was rightly designed to prevent abuse of the forum and had the unintentioned result of trapping this "off forum" discussion issue. This is nothing more than I would expect as the BB has been characterised by it's ethos of encouraging the freeflow of Icad help since it's inception.
#6
It appears I was the target after rejecting Surya's offer to post my VBA tutorial on CADopia's forum.
As I see the situation:
CADopia Support posted a VBA tips thread on their forum (which I think is a good idea) and it contained significant errors.
There were three options open to me.
1/ Post on the CMS forum that CADopia support's tip was incorrect and gloat that it was the CADopia VBA amateur hour!
2/ Post on the CADopia Forum and point out there inability.
3/ Send a private email to CADopia support and assist them to overcome the problem, allowing them to quietly correct the tip.
In accordance with my ethos I took the third option, only to be confronted with an email from Surya as posted below:
email form Surya................
John,
As long as you email comments to CADopia support via email, that is fine. However, if we see a pattern of asking users to post their email addresses or posting your email on our forums, we may not allow that for obvious reasons and edit the postings at our discretion. Hope you understand my simple position.
Are you being prevented by any financial or legal (or moral) contract to post on our site ? If there has been any misunderstanding about CADopia/Surya, let's clarify it between us.
As far as tips and techniques for VBA and other topics are concerned, we have started a tips thread on our site and it will go on endlessly in many areas, supported by CADopia staff.
CADopia is a tiny, meagerly funded but dedicated organization. Our passion for CAD differentiates us from others. VBA users will benefit from our renewed focus on this topic.
Regards!
-Surya
End email................
My Position:
I have been active on the CADopia forum since inception as JAF (changed email address and had some problems changing my profile) and then JohnF and at no time was I invited to become a moderator.
Without solicitation from me, CADopia (Surya) approached me three times (via email) to become a moderator on their VBA forum after I became a moderator on the CMS forum.
I have independent income, external from my CAD activities and my primary goal was the proliferation of IntelliCAD for all users (ex gratia).
I have received a free copy of IntelliCAD from CMS as part of my activities as a moderator on the CMS VBA forum and it is the only benefit offered by CMS. (this appears to be some form of reward to all forum moderators for their participation)
I am a free agent who is totally unencumbered by ITC, CMS, CADopia, Bricsnet and any other forum (IntelliCAD or otherwise) that I have freely engaged in.
I take offence to any suggestion that I am under any financial, legal or moral obligation to any party on any forum and that these suggestions are baseless and misconcieved.
------------------
Regards
John Finlay
Don't want to post a question - email me direct on john@acecad.com.au
As I see the situation:
CADopia Support posted a VBA tips thread on their forum (which I think is a good idea) and it contained significant errors.
There were three options open to me.
1/ Post on the CMS forum that CADopia support's tip was incorrect and gloat that it was the CADopia VBA amateur hour!
2/ Post on the CADopia Forum and point out there inability.
3/ Send a private email to CADopia support and assist them to overcome the problem, allowing them to quietly correct the tip.
In accordance with my ethos I took the third option, only to be confronted with an email from Surya as posted below:
email form Surya................
John,
As long as you email comments to CADopia support via email, that is fine. However, if we see a pattern of asking users to post their email addresses or posting your email on our forums, we may not allow that for obvious reasons and edit the postings at our discretion. Hope you understand my simple position.
Are you being prevented by any financial or legal (or moral) contract to post on our site ? If there has been any misunderstanding about CADopia/Surya, let's clarify it between us.
As far as tips and techniques for VBA and other topics are concerned, we have started a tips thread on our site and it will go on endlessly in many areas, supported by CADopia staff.
CADopia is a tiny, meagerly funded but dedicated organization. Our passion for CAD differentiates us from others. VBA users will benefit from our renewed focus on this topic.
Regards!
-Surya
End email................
My Position:
I have been active on the CADopia forum since inception as JAF (changed email address and had some problems changing my profile) and then JohnF and at no time was I invited to become a moderator.
Without solicitation from me, CADopia (Surya) approached me three times (via email) to become a moderator on their VBA forum after I became a moderator on the CMS forum.
I have independent income, external from my CAD activities and my primary goal was the proliferation of IntelliCAD for all users (ex gratia).
I have received a free copy of IntelliCAD from CMS as part of my activities as a moderator on the CMS VBA forum and it is the only benefit offered by CMS. (this appears to be some form of reward to all forum moderators for their participation)
I am a free agent who is totally unencumbered by ITC, CMS, CADopia, Bricsnet and any other forum (IntelliCAD or otherwise) that I have freely engaged in.
I take offence to any suggestion that I am under any financial, legal or moral obligation to any party on any forum and that these suggestions are baseless and misconcieved.
------------------
Regards
John Finlay
Don't want to post a question - email me direct on john@acecad.com.au
#7
While this is a rather delicate topic and I am in a likewise position, I am a CMS employee, I will comment on this topic. I think my position should be clarified so that our users know what to expect from this forum. Sort of a forum user’s guide.
1. The only thing I restrict on this forum is crude language. We are professionals here and abusive language will not be tolerated. I am glad to state that this has never been a problem on this forum and I expect the problem will not arise.
2. I do not, nor ever will, restrict comments about IntelliCAD or any other CAD product or company. (See # 5 below also) I often refer to AutoCAD as it helps a person that is changing platforms to refer to the product that they are better versed in. We are all adults here.
3. I encourage everyone to frequent all forums. Surely, there are things that could be learned from all. I have previously referred people to other forums if I find that they have an answer posted that I may not be able to answer as completely or competently. As a non-programmer this situation may arise when the questions are concerning explanations on why certain situations are happening.
4. I do not restrict email addresses, as I know from experience that when a person is brand new to a product that they may feel shy about posting a question that they are afraid may sound silly. (There are no stupid questions) All forums will have lurkers that are frequent visitors but shy away from posting so I feel that email addresses give these people an opportunity to privately ask a question about something that has been previously posted. Of course I would love to see all questions posted to help promote this forum but this should not hamper the advancement of a users education in IntelliCAD. Anyone who does not care to receive emails can opt to not include their address through their profiles. (Just noticed that mine was previously turned off … sorry) This is totally left to the discretion of the poster.
5. I do not edit any other persons posting than my own. If I feel that your comments may cause YOU some backlash I may email you out of concern for you and ask that you consider editing your post and why. I guess this is sort of a “motherly” thing, sorry. The choice to edit is yours. If your comments include crude language than I would email you and ask for you to edit your post immediately or else it will be removed. Of course, there are restrictions set up in the forum program itself to help eliminate this. I do not, nor ever will, promote negative remarks about any other product or company but I also believe in a posters “freedom of speech” so I ask that you use your best judgment knowing that many people will read your remarks. I will not remove them unless I get a fateful phone call from my superiors requesting it to be removed. At this time I will email you and try to give you 24 hrs to edit your post before removing it. Some things are out of my hands. (This posting itself may not be here long)
6. The only person on this forum that is somewhat restricted from stating their opinions is myself. As an Administrator and a CMS employee I do not feel that my comments should reflect negativity towards IntelliCAD or any other company or product.
7. I would also like to add that our Moderators are offered nothing more than a free copy of our PE version, and even then they are asked to test and give feedback on the product, in exchange for helping to answer post. This seems to be little compensation for the endless hours that they provide answering questions and posting helpful hints and tutorials. Trust me, they do this out of the kindness of their hearts and their desire to see this product evolve. I personally have no problem with our moderators posting on other forums as it is all in the best interest of the people seeking help and is working towards the advancement of IntelliCAD as a whole, not any company in particular. We have Moderators that moderate more than one board and I take no offense to that as long as they continue to help this forum also. This should never become the “Battle of the Boards.” This would only hurt the people that truly need the advice and instruction the most. This forum, like the others, has a great group of Moderators versed in many areas. John’s approach with the tutorial idea is one area that was not being fulfilled by any other board. Asbjørn’s Lisp resources and helpful routines benefit all, including myself. Michael’s helpful freebie’s information and great IntelliCAD tutorials, which I always recommend to newbies, has been a wonderful addition to our forum. Alberto’s help in translating everything into Spanish for the non-english speaking visitors gives them an opportunity that they may not have previously had open to them. I thank them all for sharing with us. I believe that every forum should have something slightly different from the others to offer so that everyone may benefit from visiting all forums. Diversity is the only thing that will keep them all going. Personal injection: I am sorry John if you have received negative attention because of your association with this forum and hope it has no bearing on the wonderful contributions you have been making towards the advancement and education of VBA in IntelliCAD on this forum and others like it.
Not needed info, possibly not even very professional, but just so you know where I am coming from ….
My personal perspective and involvement with IntelliCAD:
I use a number of different products daily and strictly teach AutoCAD during the day but all my students are aware of IntelliCAD as an affordable home alternative. I also deal with local employers that have all now been versed in the advantages of IntelliCAD. IntelliCAD fills a void in the drafting industry that was greatly needed and I am involved with this program, as a drafter of many years, to help promote it. Trust me, I turn in my wish list the same as everyone else and am the first one on the phone complaining to my boss when something is not working properly. I am surprised they do not block my phone number from calling when I am anxiously waiting for a new release as they know I will be calling constantly asking “Is it ready yet?” I work only part time for CMS, which is also a very small company, as a troubleshooter answering question concerning non-programming issues and I for one greatly appreciate the expertise given by our Moderators as they fill a void in my capabilities. I keep swearing that one day I will go back to school to learn programming so that I may help contribute to IntelliCAD also, maybe the time has come. You may one day have an Administrator that is better versed in ALL areas possible with this program but for now you are stuck with me. Haha Just an ordinary every day drafter/drafting instructor that has a strong desire to see this program reach it’s full potential. I have clearly stated my positive feelings towards what the ITC is trying to achieve with this product in previous postings. They are progressing at a fantastic rate at fine tuning this product into a viable and affordable program. I believe everyone involved (50+ companies), whether they are involved by financially backing or by providing programming or both, are involved because of a desire for an alternative CAD program to be available for all users.
Just wanted to clarify my reasons for becoming involved with IntelliCAD … I believe in this product and I believe you must also or you would not be reading this post.
Melodie
1. The only thing I restrict on this forum is crude language. We are professionals here and abusive language will not be tolerated. I am glad to state that this has never been a problem on this forum and I expect the problem will not arise.
2. I do not, nor ever will, restrict comments about IntelliCAD or any other CAD product or company. (See # 5 below also) I often refer to AutoCAD as it helps a person that is changing platforms to refer to the product that they are better versed in. We are all adults here.
3. I encourage everyone to frequent all forums. Surely, there are things that could be learned from all. I have previously referred people to other forums if I find that they have an answer posted that I may not be able to answer as completely or competently. As a non-programmer this situation may arise when the questions are concerning explanations on why certain situations are happening.
4. I do not restrict email addresses, as I know from experience that when a person is brand new to a product that they may feel shy about posting a question that they are afraid may sound silly. (There are no stupid questions) All forums will have lurkers that are frequent visitors but shy away from posting so I feel that email addresses give these people an opportunity to privately ask a question about something that has been previously posted. Of course I would love to see all questions posted to help promote this forum but this should not hamper the advancement of a users education in IntelliCAD. Anyone who does not care to receive emails can opt to not include their address through their profiles. (Just noticed that mine was previously turned off … sorry) This is totally left to the discretion of the poster.
5. I do not edit any other persons posting than my own. If I feel that your comments may cause YOU some backlash I may email you out of concern for you and ask that you consider editing your post and why. I guess this is sort of a “motherly” thing, sorry. The choice to edit is yours. If your comments include crude language than I would email you and ask for you to edit your post immediately or else it will be removed. Of course, there are restrictions set up in the forum program itself to help eliminate this. I do not, nor ever will, promote negative remarks about any other product or company but I also believe in a posters “freedom of speech” so I ask that you use your best judgment knowing that many people will read your remarks. I will not remove them unless I get a fateful phone call from my superiors requesting it to be removed. At this time I will email you and try to give you 24 hrs to edit your post before removing it. Some things are out of my hands. (This posting itself may not be here long)
6. The only person on this forum that is somewhat restricted from stating their opinions is myself. As an Administrator and a CMS employee I do not feel that my comments should reflect negativity towards IntelliCAD or any other company or product.
7. I would also like to add that our Moderators are offered nothing more than a free copy of our PE version, and even then they are asked to test and give feedback on the product, in exchange for helping to answer post. This seems to be little compensation for the endless hours that they provide answering questions and posting helpful hints and tutorials. Trust me, they do this out of the kindness of their hearts and their desire to see this product evolve. I personally have no problem with our moderators posting on other forums as it is all in the best interest of the people seeking help and is working towards the advancement of IntelliCAD as a whole, not any company in particular. We have Moderators that moderate more than one board and I take no offense to that as long as they continue to help this forum also. This should never become the “Battle of the Boards.” This would only hurt the people that truly need the advice and instruction the most. This forum, like the others, has a great group of Moderators versed in many areas. John’s approach with the tutorial idea is one area that was not being fulfilled by any other board. Asbjørn’s Lisp resources and helpful routines benefit all, including myself. Michael’s helpful freebie’s information and great IntelliCAD tutorials, which I always recommend to newbies, has been a wonderful addition to our forum. Alberto’s help in translating everything into Spanish for the non-english speaking visitors gives them an opportunity that they may not have previously had open to them. I thank them all for sharing with us. I believe that every forum should have something slightly different from the others to offer so that everyone may benefit from visiting all forums. Diversity is the only thing that will keep them all going. Personal injection: I am sorry John if you have received negative attention because of your association with this forum and hope it has no bearing on the wonderful contributions you have been making towards the advancement and education of VBA in IntelliCAD on this forum and others like it.
Not needed info, possibly not even very professional, but just so you know where I am coming from ….
My personal perspective and involvement with IntelliCAD:
I use a number of different products daily and strictly teach AutoCAD during the day but all my students are aware of IntelliCAD as an affordable home alternative. I also deal with local employers that have all now been versed in the advantages of IntelliCAD. IntelliCAD fills a void in the drafting industry that was greatly needed and I am involved with this program, as a drafter of many years, to help promote it. Trust me, I turn in my wish list the same as everyone else and am the first one on the phone complaining to my boss when something is not working properly. I am surprised they do not block my phone number from calling when I am anxiously waiting for a new release as they know I will be calling constantly asking “Is it ready yet?” I work only part time for CMS, which is also a very small company, as a troubleshooter answering question concerning non-programming issues and I for one greatly appreciate the expertise given by our Moderators as they fill a void in my capabilities. I keep swearing that one day I will go back to school to learn programming so that I may help contribute to IntelliCAD also, maybe the time has come. You may one day have an Administrator that is better versed in ALL areas possible with this program but for now you are stuck with me. Haha Just an ordinary every day drafter/drafting instructor that has a strong desire to see this program reach it’s full potential. I have clearly stated my positive feelings towards what the ITC is trying to achieve with this product in previous postings. They are progressing at a fantastic rate at fine tuning this product into a viable and affordable program. I believe everyone involved (50+ companies), whether they are involved by financially backing or by providing programming or both, are involved because of a desire for an alternative CAD program to be available for all users.
Just wanted to clarify my reasons for becoming involved with IntelliCAD … I believe in this product and I believe you must also or you would not be reading this post.
Melodie
#8
John
I have carefully read your above posting and if this is a verbatim pasting of an Email from Surya I can see nothing in it that would cause offence to me. It is polite, there are questions but there are no accusations against you I can see. I have seen a recent message of thanks from Surya expressed in the warmest terms to you on the Cadopia Forum for help you have given to users. Posting what is obviously a private Email on a public Forum accompanied by such vitriolic comments is a mistake and seems to set new records for bad tast. The way this topic has turned seems to be completely at odds with the helpful spirit that has characterised Intellicad forums for so many years.
I have carefully read your above posting and if this is a verbatim pasting of an Email from Surya I can see nothing in it that would cause offence to me. It is polite, there are questions but there are no accusations against you I can see. I have seen a recent message of thanks from Surya expressed in the warmest terms to you on the Cadopia Forum for help you have given to users. Posting what is obviously a private Email on a public Forum accompanied by such vitriolic comments is a mistake and seems to set new records for bad tast. The way this topic has turned seems to be completely at odds with the helpful spirit that has characterised Intellicad forums for so many years.
